Feedback on Still OS

Feedback
1

I just tested Still OS from a point of “a normal user that comes from Windows and doesn’t want to have to learn CLI”. I’ve tested over 30 distros since last summer and I’m on the search for a distro that is really easy to use for normal people, that I could recommend to a noob.

Currently I use Fedora Plasma / Kinoite on a living room PC and find Kinoite is the best newbie OS. So, this is what I will compare to mostly. But I also have used the KDE versions of Debian, MX Linux, Suse TW and SR, KDE neon, Kubuntu, Endeavor, Cachy OS, Bluefin and more. I also tested Ubuntu (i.c 26.04LTS), Mint 22.2, LMDE. I only want to sue CLI if i absolutely have to and if it is very well documented. Just so you have an idea of where I come from. My work and home desktop is W11 and I like it.

I don’t like Gnome, so don’t take this as offence, just a suggestion. My hardware is just an i7-6700 without dGPU and no Wifi, BT etc.

the good:

  • the software selection is nice as it avoids bloat, but installs software I need. But it was a bit confusing since there is a 1st screen to select a few typical apps, and then the screens with the categories where the apps I selected show up again. I don’t have a suggestion to improve, though.

Needs improvement:

  • This being based on Kernel 6.12 and Gnome 47 will be problematic for UI and maybe hardware?
  • Installer has no live mode to test before installing. I noticed the same with Kionite. Is that a limitation of the immutable? It would be nice to test the OS before installing.
  • The installer is old and harder to select the proper SSD. Some installers seem less confusing. I only used the entire SSD, not a dual-boot etc. I suspect that can lead to mistakes. By now I should be really good installing Linux and had to doubt myself.
  • Time zone recognition isn’t automatic like most distros. and entering “Chicago” in my case, isn’t show me the correct time zone. Most distros already “know” my time zone or make this easier
  • No fractional scaling. This is why i also excluded Mint etc. To me and many users with modern monitor setup (different refresh rates, resolutions, orientation) is a deal breaker.
  • Accessing my 2nd SSD requires a password. this should be auto-mounted (the only good thing i can say about Ubuntu, it auto-mounts drives). I know auto-mount can be set in Gnome disks, but a noob shouldn’t have to do that or find it out.
  • If you want to use Gnome, the default should be the option to NOT hide the dock and to have it at the bottom. Top bar should disappear.
  • I think Plasma would have been a better base. it has fractional scaling etc., and doesn’t require extensions to make it work. You have a big warning for the Gnome extensions, and i agree, they shouldn’t be used since they will break the system. but then why even offer them? Many distros use Gnome as a base, and then make it look like Windows, just to make it all awkward (Zorin). I don’t understand why they don’t use Plasma, that already looks like Windows
  • There are a lot of limitations in Gnome, that require CLI to work around and Plasma has that as GUI. I don’t want to go in every detail, and this can be subjective. but KDE is nicer than windows, Gnome is much worse.
  • this is an issue with EVERY distro: the screen resolution and audio output have to be set manually. Windows automatically knows my screen resolution and also tells me the recommended resolution. In Linux, a user needs to know, they have 4K, and what the pixel numbers for 4K are. Maybe this can’t be resolved, but I see how a noob would use the wrong resolution without ever knowing.

I have no technical knowledge, and just see it from a point of a user. I would be glad to hear what the reasons are why you made the choices? This is subjective, and just a crazy idea. But if i would create a fork, I would use Kinoite as a base, and only add your software selection feature, add something to auto-mount drives, and maybe pre-set a layout. And it would be good if the distro then gets the updates directly from Fedora, so i don’t need to rely on a small new team to prepare updates. Basically just a script to Fedora/Kionite. I know, I have no actual knowledge. but a distro like Kionite + the small improvements would be a great beginner distro. And with newer Kernels, it would work on more newer hardware.

Please don’t take anything as offense. I appreciate the time you put in. and some of the above may be subjective. I know it is easy to have ideas, but harder to implement.

2

Hello, thank you so much for the feedback.

This, being based on Kernel 6.12 and Gnome 47, will be problematic for UI and maybe hardware?

We are using AlmaLinux because Fedora moves very fast and often ships technology fast in a state that is ready for power users but not stable enough for noobs. Wayland, Pipewire, and BTRFS were all shipped too early for noobs IMO, although I do remember being an excited Fedora user when these all dropped haha, so not considering it a downside of Fedora, more just a difference in targeting. AlmaLinux gives me a much more stable, reliable base, especially considering it’s a rebuild of Red Hat, which is used by a majority of Fortune 500 companies.

As a downside, the base distro is giving us older kernels and older GNOME. I am working on a way to backport kernels, and GNOME 49 at least (possibly GNOME 50 instead depending on the workload) will be backported over to stillOS due to much increased Wayland stability, although this is only going to be a one-time thing for stillOS and not something we will likely do in the future just because we are still mid-Wayland transition right now. CentOS Stream 10 is already backporting GNOME 49, which stillOS will inherit. Although GNOME 50 is such an important release for Wayland users, I am considering manually backporting it instead for stillOS 10.2. Other than the Wayland stuff, I disagree that older GNOME is problematic from a UI standpoint; you just get some features a bit later, but I am not targeting those who need the latest and greatest. Once the Wayland transition is complete (which GNOME 50 seems to nail), I don’t expect to need to backport GNOME to a future release.

Installer has no live mode to test before installing. I noticed the same with Kionite. Is that a limitation of the immutable? It would be nice to test the OS before installing.

The installer is old and harder to select the proper SSD. Some installers seem less confusing. I only used the entire SSD, not a dual-boot etc. I suspect that can lead to mistakes. By now I should be really good installing Linux and had to doubt myself.

This was a limitation of immutable; the Universal Blue team figured out a workaround that I am planning on eventually bringing to stillOS temporarily, although I also want to build my own installer because I completely agree with you on Anaconda being confusing.

Time zone recognition isn’t automatic like most distros. and entering “Chicago” in my case, isn’t show me the correct time zone. Most distros already “know” my time zone or make this easier

GNOME Initial Setup should allow you to set your timezone, although there is no way for us to disable this in Anaconda, which is another reason I want to build my own installer.

No fractional scaling. This is why i also excluded Mint etc. To me and many users with modern monitor setup (different refresh rates, resolutions, orientation) is a deal breaker.

This will be fixed when we backport GNOME 49/50.

Accessing my 2nd SSD requires a password. this should be auto-mounted (the only good thing i can say about Ubuntu, it auto-mounts drives). I know auto-mount can be set in Gnome disks, but a noob shouldn’t have to do that or find it out.

I do not use external drives, so thank you for pointing this out. I will see what Ubuntu does to fix this!

If you want to use Gnome, the default should be the option to NOT hide the dock and to have it at the bottom. Top bar should disappear.

I plan to change this with stillOS 10.2, as multiple people have complained about it.

I think Plasma would have been a better base. it has fractional scaling etc., and doesn’t require extensions to make it work. You have a big warning for the Gnome extensions, and i agree, they shouldn’t be used since they will break the system. but then why even offer them? Many distros use Gnome as a base, and then make it look like Windows, just to make it all awkward (Zorin). I don’t understand why they don’t use Plasma, that already looks like Windows

We are using GNOME for two reasons. The app ecosystem and the way workspaces work. GNOME, to me, implements workspaces in a cleaner way than any other DE/OS, and I use it heavily in my workflow. While many stillOS users won’t use workspaces the way I do, I intend to eventually market stillOS as a “productivity” Linux distro and encourage people to learn it to enhance their productivity.

Additionally, I am trying to make stillOS feel like a consumer-focused, polished product that would come out of a big tech company, and the GNOME app ecosystem does a great job of this. Everything feels coherent and consistent, and KDE apps do not compare in polish and quality. Without the GNOME app ecosystem, I would likely ship KDE, but this is the HUGE differentator that made me pick GNOME.

GNOME does bother me in some other places, and in the very long term, I would like to build my own DE that is layout-customizable like Plasma, but with a hard-coded theme/brand for consistency’s sake, designed to fit GNOME apps and look like GNOME. Essentially, building an alternative shell around the GNOME ecosystem. That said, it is just an idea right now, and it’s years out.

There are a lot of limitations in Gnome, that require CLI to work around and Plasma has that as GUI. I don’t want to go in every detail, and this can be subjective. but KDE is nicer than windows, Gnome is much worse.

What do you need the CLI for in GNOME? I am asking out of genuine curiosity because I never have to use the CLI for GNOME unless I am doing something explicitly not supported by GNOME or stillOS, like patching in custom themes.

this is an issue with EVERY distro: the screen resolution and audio output have to be set manually. Windows automatically knows my screen resolution and also tells me the recommended resolution. In Linux, a user needs to know, they have 4K, and what the pixel numbers for 4K are. Maybe this can’t be resolved, but I see how a noob would use the wrong resolution without ever knowing.

Very interesting pain point I have not considered. I wonder if I could have a screen resolution setting in Quick Setup that is guided to help prevent this, though the technical limitations will make it hard to automate completely.

Thank you so much for the feedback. This is very helpful. I am trying to build the best Linux distribution for getting real work done.

PS. Funny username.

1 Like
3

Thanks for the reply and explanation! It sounds like you already plan to address some points.

I already de-installed my test Ubuntu setup, and that was the only Gnome distro I tried. but from memory:

  • the login screen doesn’t scale automatically to match the desktop scale. My desktop was at 225%, but the login screen is at 100% and all writing is tiny. There is a way to edit config file to fix that. but i didn’t try since a noob shouldn’t have to do that. This also was an issue in Plasma up to 6.4 i think. There is a setting to make SDDM be like the desktop, but it didn’t work. This is fixed in Plasma 6.6 (at least in Fedora and Kubuntu 26.04). Login Screen scales like the desktop setting.
  • I didn’t use CLI for Ubuntu, but the volume adjustment steps have to be adjusted with CLI (I read). In Plasma, volume changes by 5% for every keyboard click. But you can change that down to 1% for finer tuning. I set mine to 2%. But Gnome does not show me a %, and the jumps are too large. So I would like to adjust that, but a user shouldn’t google for CLI commands. W11 seems to default to 2%. This may not be an issue if you use the mouse to adjust volume. But at the desk or in living room, I like to sue the keys.
  • I didn’t test on Still OS, but in Ubuntu Gnome it takes 4 clicks to power off the PC. On Plasma it takes 2 clicks.
  • You did fix that with your edited layouts. I found the top bar in Ubuntu that can’t go away very irritating and wasting screen real estate. Most people use extensions, but then we create broken systems.
  • This is subjective, and may be because I use W11. But the Gnome apps don’t look better to me than the KDE apps. I assume you meant Dolphin etc.? I have the suspicion you use a Mac and therefore like the Gnome optics better? I’m not against Gnome, and actually like the less adjustability. But they went too far by taking away user settings and their defaults are not good.
  • I didn’t test this in Still OS, but in Ubuntu 26.04 the file explorer was not able to access my Windows file share. It could find it, and I could enter my credentials, but it didn’t work. This also did not work in Dolphin up to KDE 6.4. It does work in 6.6 (Kubuntu and Fedora/Kionite). I suggest you test if that works.

You see, a lot of things work in Plasma, but only in very recent versions. Many LTS distros still use older KDE and require workarounds or config file editing. That is why went from Debian to Fedora. And Kinoite (immutable is great for normal users).

I’m now testing Kubuntu 26.04 and that also auto-mounts my second INTERNAL SATA SSD. (K)ubuntu seem to be the only distros doing that. It took me a long time to find out how to auto-mount with Gnome Disk or KDE Partition Manager. It isn’t too hard, but not obvious. And everyone I asked, gave me a long list of CLI commands and files to edit… this clearly isn’t good when there are GUI tools.

I was talking about internal SSD (SATA in my case) that was auto-mounted in (K)ubuntu. I didn’t test Ubuntu/Still OS with USB-drives. You should test that if you haven’t already. I found some distros require added action to mount, some auto-mount. A user coming from Windows will have no idea what “mounting” means.

I don’t necessarily care if a Kernel or DE version is new or old as long as it works. My hardware is 9+ years old and no BT, Wifi or dGPU. I started with Debian 13 KDE and MX Linux KDE (6.12 Kernel) and didn’t have hardware issues. But users of newer hardware or especially laptops with fingerprint reader etc. may have issues. And the older KDE versions of Debian (see above what KDE 6.5+ fixed for me) made Fedora/Kinoite work well for me. Do I need the latest and greatest? No. But easily accessing Windows shares or not needing to edit config files to scale SDDM properly is nice.

I hope this helps and it doesn’t just sound like a list of unrealistic demands. I look at distros from a point “I don’t mind W11, but I try that Linux thing. But if it is too hard, or has too many shortcomings, I use W11”.

Before you start with your own installer and DE, have a look at the installer MX Linux uses. That is a pretty nice one. The Ubuntu installer was the best. Kubuntu on the other has a confusing installer. Installation only happens once, just use one that is better, it doesn’t need to be perfect. And if you create your own DE, you lose the benefits of the Gnome apps. But then you could use KDE? Making a better DE must be a huge undertaking judging by the problems System76 has with Cosmic.

I’ll keep following your YT channel and will test again in the future. I actually violated my rule to only consider distros that have a large community and longer track record. I just liked your mission to create a user-friendly OS.

Edit: one additional odd thing I remember is when I changed the layout from Vanilla gnome to the more Windows layout, I had to log out and back in. All good and then I had the new layout with bottom taskbar. But for some reason it then went back to the original layout within that session. I don’t think I had accidentally clicked on the the oob layout. But even if I did, me not logging out should have prevented it changing the layout. Maybe it was a fluke? A bug?

BTW, I didn’t see an official feedback option or contact. That is why I created this account. If you have an official feedback or bug report option, make it more clear in the distro or the website. If you haven’t already, you could use opt-in telemetry to learn about issues we have.

4

Thanks for the reply and explanation! It sounds like you already plan to address some points.

I already de-installed my test Ubuntu setup, and that was the only Gnome distro I tried. but from memory:

  • the login screen doesn’t scale automatically to match the desktop scale. My desktop was at 225%, but the login screen is at 100% and all writing is tiny. There is a way to edit config file to fix that. but i didn’t try since a noob shouldn’t have to do that. This also was an issue in Plasma up to 6.4 i think. There is a setting to make SDDM be like the desktop, but it didn’t work. This is fixed in Plasma 6.6 (at least in Fedora and Kubuntu 26.04). Login Screen scales like the desktop setting.

    • This should be fixed in GNOME 49/50, so will work with a backport.

  • I didn’t use CLI for Ubuntu, but the volume adjustment steps have to be adjusted with CLI (I read). In Plasma, volume changes by 5% for every keyboard click. But you can change that down to 1% for finer tuning. I set mine to 2%. But Gnome does not show me a %, and the jumps are too large. So I would like to adjust that, but a user shouldn’t google for CLI commands. W11 seems to default to 2%. This may not be an issue if you use the mouse to adjust volume. But at the desk or in living room, I like to sue the keys.

    • I can add a change in stillControl for this.

  • I didn’t test on Still OS, but in Ubuntu Gnome it takes 4 clicks to power off the PC. On Plasma it takes 2 clicks.

    • Takes 3 clicks on stillOS for me

  • This is subjective, and may be because I use W11. But the Gnome apps don’t look better to me than the KDE apps. I assume you meant Dolphin etc.? I have the suspicion you use a Mac and therefore like the Gnome optics better? I’m not against Gnome, and actually like the less adjustability. But they went too far by taking away user settings and their defaults are not good.

  • I do use Mac as my non-Linux system now, but I’ve only had my Mac for 6 months, while I’ve been a GNOME user for 5 years now. The GNOME apps are not just about looks (in fact, I think Plasma apps can look better since you have real theming). It’s mainly that programming Qt apps is much harder than programming GTK apps, which means the community is much smaller, which in turn means many KDE apps are very poorly maintained, and many apps do not follow KDE’s design guidelines. In comparison, new GNOME-style apps are coming out every single week; old ones are all maintained; and every app closely follows GNOME’s HIG guidelines, making them all intuitive to use. I actually think GNOME has the best app ecosystem, including apps for Windows and macOS.

  • I didn’t test this in Still OS, but in Ubuntu 26.04 the file explorer was not able to access my Windows file share. It could find it, and I could enter my credentials, but it didn’t work. This also did not work in Dolphin up to KDE 6.4. It does work in 6.6 (Kubuntu and Fedora/Kionite). I suggest you test if that works.

Before you start with your own installer and DE, have a look at the installer MX Linux uses. That is a pretty nice one. The Ubuntu installer was the best. Kubuntu on the other has a confusing installer. Installation only happens once, just use one that is better, it doesn’t need to be perfect.

MX Linux uses Calamares I believe which is the standard on Debian and Arch based distros, however it does not support bootc which we are using, and I have used it in the past on Arch based distros and it is very difficult to configure and maintain. It would take about the same amount of work to use Calamares on stillOS as it would to make my own installer, as I would have to add bootc support to Calamares anyway (in a codebase I am completely unfamiliar with). Ubuntu’s installer only works for Ubuntu full stop, so I cannot use that.

And if you create your own DE, you lose the benefits of the Gnome apps. But then you could use KDE? Making a better DE must be a huge undertaking judging by the problems System76 has with Cosmic.

COSMIC did it from scratch, I plan on using an existing window manager like Hyprland or LabWC, and than basically making a custom panel and extending it. That way I don’t have to do a ton of initial development. This is how many smaller desktops worked back in the day.

I could still get the benefits of GNOME apps by using GTK and following GNOME HIG when building the DE. I like GNOME’s theming anyway, I am just restricted by the limitations of GNOME shell. I likely keep the hard-coded themes GNOME has in the design of my DE, but just make the layout a lot more flexible.

I’ll keep following your YT channel and will test again in the future. I actually violated my rule to only consider distros that have a large community and longer track record. I just liked your mission to create a user-friendly OS.

Thank you, I really appreciate the testing.

Edit: one additional odd thing I remember is when I changed the layout from Vanilla gnome to the more Windows layout, I had to log out and back in. All good and then I had the new layout with bottom taskbar. But for some reason it then went back to the original layout within that session. I don’t think I had accidentally clicked on the the oob layout. But even if I did, me not logging out should have prevented it changing the layout. Maybe it was a fluke? A bug?

Probably a GNOME extension crashing.

BTW, I didn’t see an official feedback option or contact. That is why I created this account. If you have an official feedback or bug report option, make it more clear in the distro or the website. If you haven’t already, you could use opt-in telemetry to learn about issues we have.

This, and Discord, will be the way to do it. I am going to eventually set up this forum, the bug-tracking space, and the feedback space; I just haven’t had time yet to finish it. Been balancing the stillOS launch, YouTube, another part-time job, and college, haha. I am a time management wizard.

1 Like
5

When I tested Ubuntu 26.04 LTS BETA (gnome 50), the login screen did not scale. I didn’t see a setting to make it scale, but maybe I didn’t look hard enough or this is related to it being a BETA? I used 250% scale, so the difference was noticeable.

Are you counting the click/confirmation to skip the 60 seconds delay? Plasma by default also has that delay (like I’m not sure if I wanted to power off and have to confirm). But Plasma lets me disable that question, making it 2 clicks. In Ubuntu at least, it was annoying since I turn off the PC every time after I’m done.

I noticed Kionite 43 had a less good installer than Fedora 43. I suspect they had the same issue.